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Interview 199

ence between the way engineers are trained and the there's also the aesthetic of how it works as well. You
way designers are trained is that engineers are trained can talk about an elegant way of doing something as
to focus in on a solution from the beginning whereas well as an elegant look.
designers are trained to focus out to begin with and
then focus in. They focus out and try lots of different HS: Another trait I've seen in designers is being pro-
hi
alternatives, and they pick some and try them out to tective of their design.
see how they go. Then they refine down. This is very
GC: I think that is both a vice and a virtue. In order
hard for both the engineers and the designers because
to keep a design coherent you need to keep a grip on
the designers are thinking the engineers are trying to
the whole and to push it through as a whole. Other-
hone in much too quickly and the engineers can't
wise it can happen that people try to make this a bit
bear the designers faffing about. They are trained to
smaller and cut bits out of that, and so on, and before
get their results in a completely different way.
you know where you are the coherence of the design
is lost. It is quite difficult for a team to hold a coher-
HS: Is your idea to make each more tolerant of the ent vision of a design. If you think of other design
other?
fields, like film-making, for instance, there is one di-
GC: Yes, my idea is not to try to make renaissance rector and everybody accepts that it's the director's
people, as I don't think it's feasible. Very few people vision. One of the things that's wrong with products
can do everything weU. I think the ideal team is made like Microsoft Word, for instance, is that there's no
up of people who are really confident and good at what coherent idea in it that makes you t nk, "Oh yes, I
they do and open-mined enough to realize there are understand how this fits with that."
very different approaches. There's the scientific ap- Design is always a balance between things that
proach, the engineering approach, the design approach. work well and things that look good, and the ideal de-
All three are different and that's their value-you sign satisfies everything, but in most designs you have
don't want everybody to be the same. The best combi- to make trade-offs. If you're making a game it's more
nation is where you have engineers who understand important that people enjoy it and that it looks good
design and designers who understand engineering. than to worry if some of it's a bit difficult. If you're
It's important that people know their limitations making a fighter cockpit then the most important
too. If you realize that you need an ergonomist, then thing is that pilots don't fall out of the sky, and so this
you go and find one and you hire them to consult for informs the trade-offs you make. The question is, who
you. So you need to know what you don't know as decides how to decide the criteria for the tradeoffs
well as what you do. that inevitably need to be made. This is not a matter
of engineering: it's a matter of values--cultural, emo-
HS: What other aspects of traditional design do you tional, aesthetic.
think help with interaction design?
GC I think the ability to visualize things. It allows HS: 1 know this is a controversial issue for some de-
people to make quick prototypes or models or sketches signers. Do you think users should be part of the de-
so that a group of people can talk about something sign team?
concrete. I think that's invaluable in the process. I GC: No, I don't. I think it's an abdication of re-
think also making things that people like is just one of sponsibility. Users should definitely be involved as a
the things that good designers have a feel for. source of inspiration, suggesting ideas, evaluating
proposals-saying, "Yes, we think this would be
HS: Do you mean aesthetically like or like in its great" or "No, we think this is an appalling idea."
whole sense? But in the end, if designers aren't better than the
GC: In its whole sense. Obviously there's the aes- general public at designing things, what are they
thetic of what something looks like or feels like but doing as designers?